Kim Gordon on musical authenticity, political art, and latest solo album 'PLAY ME' • Interview • DIY Magazine

“Bird flu. Advocate. Pregnant person. Immigrants.” On the 2025 rework of her Grammy-nominated single ‘Bye Bye’, Kim Gordon substitutes her original lyrics for phrases the Trump administration is reportedly seeking to ban. Full of jarring juxtapositions, references to climate change butt up against language around diversity, equity and inclusion, creating a surreal stream of consciousness that’s darkly humorous - especially when delivered deadpan, over blown-out beats originally intended for Playboi Carti.

“I think [humour is] useful if you are gonna skirt around political things,” the former Sonic Youth frontwoman smirks, speaking from her home in LA today. “But also, my lyrics are more like abstract poetry than anything else.”

As per her art, there’s an air of inscrutability to Gordon in conversation. Economical with her words, the 72-year-old seems totally at ease with silence, often letting her answers hang in the air between us. She confessed as much in her 2015 autobiography, Girl in a Band, explaining, “from growing up listening to jazz, I picked up another, cooler aspect of the female voice - the idea of space, and in-between-ness.”

Coolness and originality are never qualities Kim has had to worry much about. From her 30-year tenure in Sonic Youth, to spells fronting alt-rock outfit Free Kitten and experimental noise duo Body/Head, she’s always made pushing the parameters of alternative music look effortless. And yet, arguably, this late-period solo career is proving her most fascinating chapter so far, finding her fusing noise-rock roots with influences from avant-rap.

“I’m just not so interested in ‘conventional music’,” she says of her drive to break new ground. “I mean, other people do that quite well, but it doesn’t really interest me. I don’t find it compelling. And I do really see myself as a visual artist who makes music, so I think I have a different attitude to other musicians.”

“I’m just not so interested in ‘conventional music’.”

Regardless, Kim has found a kindred spirit in long-time producer Justin Raisen (Charli xcx, Yves Tumor, Sky Ferreira). Across a 10-year working relationship, Justin has collaborated on all three of her solo albums so far, and the evolution of their sound can be clearly traced. Building on the glowering footwork on 2019’s ‘No Home Record’ and the abrasive blend of industrial and trap beats that underpinned 2024’s ‘The Collective’, her excellent new LP ‘PLAY ME’ marks a shift again, nodding to Krautrock trailblazers Neu! as well as more melodic hip hop.

Brevity was a watchword throughout. “Justin works a lot with rap artists, and he’s always saying ‘Rap songs aren’t longer than two minutes.’ [In hip hop] a lot of people don’t think in terms of albums - it’s more song-oriented. And once you’ve said what you need to say in a song, you get out.”

This concision can also be read as a comment on diminishing attention spans, particularly in the light of a title track that explicitly critiques lean-back listening. On it, Kim lists Spotify playlist titles over a breezy trip hop instrumental, her detached drawl exposing the hollowness of vapid mood music: “Rich Popular Girl, Villain Mode, Jazz and Background, Chilling After Work…”

Kim describes the song as “more anti-Spotify than it is anti-streaming,” singling out the Spotify Radio algorithm as one of the platform’s worst offences. “It’s like, if you like this band then you’ll like these bands,” she shudders. “And then there’s the fact that [Spotify] make playlists for brands so then you’ll find your music suddenly endorsing Nike or something, and not getting paid for it. Which is doubly problematic because you’re getting paid hardly anything anyway.”

She’s not wild about the alternatives either: “None of them are much better. And Apple take money from ICE for advertising.” Beyond uninspiring music choices, she worries how this passivity towards art bleeds into other areas of public life. “You lose that muscle of seeking things out,” she rues. “Technology has made everything more convenient, but it also takes away a certain amount of freedom and choice.”

Big tech proves a prime target for satire throughout. On the innuendo-heavy ‘Dirty Tech’, she considers the insidious creep of AI, playing a brainwashed protagonist who flirts, “Are you my white collar service worker?” over ticking beats and the wipe-clean whoosh of synths. Elsewhere, the glowering throb of ‘Subcon’ sees her baiting Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos and the rest in the autotuned refrain, “You want to go Mars / And then what?”

“Music doesn’t have to do anything. To me, music is really about freedom.”

Indelibly influenced by the social context it was created in, ‘PLAY ME’ is an album that audibly bristles with tension. ‘No Hands’ stitches together shards of guitar distortion with hyperactive breakbeats, while ‘Black Out’ is built around a sinister hip hop loop worthy of Clipping. Aforementioned single ‘ByeBye25’ provides the perfect conclusion, laying bare the dystopian suppression tactics of an administration that seeks to outlaw terms like “women” and “climate change”. As Kim puts it, “the destruction is kind of overwhelming. Just [Trump’s] complete unwillingness to admit climate change is real, and him getting rid of all these safeguards…”

What responsibility does she feel as an artist to incite positive change? “Music doesn’t have to do anything. To me, music is really about freedom. When you listen to any music, it really changes your brain. But one thing music can do is build community and bring people together.”

In terms of what gives her hope, Kim is heartened to see Trump’s approval ratings dropping. “Republicans are now starting to speak out against him, and people see that he’s not going to be here forever so they’re now trying to kind of move towards a different stance that’s not MAGA, but going back to conservatism. Ultimately, I think what people seem to care about most is the economy and Trump’s not doing anything for that, so.”

There’s much reason for personal optimism too - five decades in, Kim is arguably in the best creative shape of her life, with several exhibitions of her visual art in the works as well as a music career that’s setting new precedents, including her first ever Grammy nominations. As a defiantly independent artist, just how validated did she feel receiving nods in 2024 for ‘The Collective’?

“It felt nice to be recognised outside of my bubble of experimental music or indie music or whatever. But the Grammys is never anything I’ve aspired to. That side of the industry is another world to me. It has nothing to do with music - it’s more about show business.” Regardless, she enjoyed attending the ceremony with her daughter, Coco. Kim grins: “She described it as ‘an interesting experiment’.”

It was also an opportunity to stop and take stock - something that an artist as forward-facing as Kim rarely does. “I forget about looking back,” she laughs. “It feels like a luxury or an indulgence, almost.” Happily, there have been an increasing number of opportunities to do just that, what with the recent 10th anniversary reissue of Girl In A Band, and the Sundance premiere of Tamra Harris’ documentary The Best Summer - a backstage account of 1995’s Summersault Festival, featuring Sonic Youth, Bikini Kill, Beastie Boys, Foo Fighters, Pavement and Breeders side-project The Amps.

Reflecting on that period, Kim can see clear artistic growth. “I think I’m more confident now. Nowadays I could worry about something, but I just have to do it, and not overthink it.” But truthfully, she’d rather not dwell, and her focus turns to the future and the impact she’d like ‘PLAY ME’ to have on listeners: “Honestly, I hope they take a sense of joy away from it. Like, ‘oh, this is something that I’ve been wanting to hear…’”

‘PLAY ME’ is out now via Matador.

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